Align Hiring Managers on the Engagement Budget to Enhance the Candidate Experience

JOSH TOLAN: Alright. Alright. Well, Jen, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me. Let’s start by just telling everybody a little bit about yourself.

JEN PAXTON: Thanks, Josh. I’m so excited to be here. So, I have basically spent the last fifteen years of my career in rapidly growing startups. I’ll either be a head of, you know, Head of People, Head of Talent, a little mix of both. I got to really lead an amazing team at Level Up as our Director of Talent. And then, I went back into smaller startups where I was head of people and talent, and those led to some acquisitions. And then, as you and I were talking offline, I had cofounded my own company, which was an employer branding video content platform, sold it, and then now I’m back to leading as Head of People and Talent again.

JOSH TOLAN: That’s awesome. And the current company you’re at is called Roofr. Can you tell me a little bit about the business?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. Roofr is an all-in-one CRM platform for roofers. From measuring roofs to getting the materials to sending out that bill, a roofer can really do it all.

JOSH TOLAN: That’s awesome. It’s funny because when I was on the website earlier and doing some research, we actually have to do some work on our roof right now. So I sent over the website to our roofer and was like, hey, man. You gotta check this site out. So maybe, you know, you’ll get a customer coming your way.

JEN PAXTON: That would be amazing. Yeah. Feel free to drop my name. I’d love that our sales team would love to. “Referred by Jen.”

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. That’s awesome. Tell me a little bit about your role at Roofr.

JEN PAXTON: I am the Senior Director of People and talent over here at Roofr. So I have an amazing team that I work with. I have two people on the talent acquisition side and then two people on the people operation side. So I get to really play both sides of the coin on that end. So, I am helping to, you know, bring in amazing talent and then also helping to support talent as they continue to grow with the company.

JOSH TOLAN: Got it. So you’ve got two folks that are specifically focused on talent acquisition, and they report up to you. Okay. And what other roles are they are like full cycle recruiters, or what are they specialized in?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. So, one is a sourcer, and then the other is a full cycle recruiter, and she really leads, you know, she’s really leading the talent team at this point. She had been here before I joined and had built out a lot of amazing processes and candidate experience was really kind of her main focus. And so there are a lot of things where I just, you know, have a conversation with her, and then she really runs with that moving forward.

JOSH TOLAN: That’s awesome. And so Roofr is a company. How many employees do you guys have?

JEN PAXTON: Currently, we’re about a hundred and thirty-five at this point.

JOSH TOLAN: Nice. And you joined about six months ago. Right? That’s what I saw on LinkedIn.

JEN PAXTON: I think, I think it’s been, yeah, I think it’s since December, so almost, oh my gosh.

Almost six months. You’re right. Yeah, I have. And yeah, I was gonna say the cool thing about Roofr as well – and one thing that drew me in was the global aspect of the team – so we have people in Canada, people in the US, and then we also have some people in Europe and South America and Asia as well.

JOSH TOLAN: Love it. Yeah. I definitely wanna talk about the remote hiring aspect and some of the challenges that come with that, and how you guys are tackling that. So we’ll certainly jump in. So you’ve been there about six months. What was the catalyst for joining? I was when I was doing some research, I see you guys raised some funding in about, like, October ish.

So did that spur a lot of growth goals for the business then, I’m assuming?

JEN PAXTON: Yes. That spurred a lot of the growth goals, for the business. And, for myself, I wasn’t actually looking, I wasn’t on the market. I was just doing some consulting, and a previous employee that I’d worked with at another company, also that was based in Canada, came and wrote me a LinkedIn message saying, hey.

We’re looking for a head of people in talent. Would you wanna consider this? And so I said, sure. Let me have a conversation.

Again, the market is a little wild, I guess, at this moment because some places are hiring a lot and other places are, you know, laying off. People are just kind of staying staying flat. So wasn’t, you know, wasn’t really expecting anything at this point. 

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. And it looks like when I was on your careers page, you guys are hiring quite a bit, so that’s awesome to see.

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. We are actually in hiring, you know, hiring mode at this point. We had a little bit of a, kind of, a flat for, you know, December and January and a little bit into February, and then really are starting to kick it up a notch again.

JOSH TOLAN: Nice. And is it specific types of roles, or what positions are you guys mainly trying to fill right now?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. So, it’s mostly on the engineering side at this point. We do have an account manager role open, and, we just opened an SDR role as well. But, predominantly, we’re trying to get some more engineering horsepower.

JOSH TOLAN: Very cool. So let’s dive into the world of remote hiring because you just brought up how you guys are a global team. We are as well here at SparkHiro. We’ve got people in twelve or thirteen countries at this point. So I can definitely relate to some of the challenges. But from your perspective, and I know this is maybe a loaded question, but what are the biggest challenges that you’ve seen in a remote hiring environment?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. I mean, well, I think the very first thing is actually our brand because a lot of places will be a like, say they’re a global company, but then if you, you know, talk to anyone in a particular, you know, country, like, let’s take Portugal for instance because we actually did have some folks in Portugal.

We don’t have a brand recognition out there. Our software is not over there yet, and there’s also, a lot of kind of GDPR stuff that we’re still really thinking through. So, we struggle a little bit to identify and let people know who we are so that they will actually apply to us. A lot of times, for any of the roles we’ve had for global, we’ve actually just done sourcing for them instead of having applicants because that would be a challenge to have global applicants come in at the top of the funnel.

On the Canadian and the US side, we have a better brand. So we are hiring people with backgrounds that come from roofing, but then also people that are coming from, you know, SaaS companies as well. And we are a little bit more recognizable in the US and Canada at this point. So probably if I was gonna say, like, our number one initiative, it is going to be, you know, really getting our brand recognition out there.

Hopefully, you’re gonna see some awards soon for us. So predominantly in Canada since that’s where we’re really hiring at this point, but that’s kind of where we’re looking to go at this point.

JOSH TOLAN: Very cool. Yeah. I haven’t thought about that, I guess, globally in the sense that when you’re trying to find candidates in these other markets where maybe you’re not serving customers, it can be harder to attract those folks. So seemingly, are you guys expanding the business in those areas, or is more of now the focus to expand the brand by way of, like, the talent acquisition team through your sourcing efforts and outbound messaging and getting the word out and doing things to start pulling candidates into the funnel?

JEN PAXTON: Hopefully, it’s gonna be a little bit of both. But it’s still something that we’re talking about at the leadership level as what expansion does look like for us as a business moving forward.

JOSH TOLAN: Yep. And then in the US and Canada where you guys have more brand recognition, what types of you know, on the flip side, what types of challenges could that represent? Like, from my experience, when we post a remote role here in the US, we’re getting, you know, five hundred to a thousand people applying for every position, and so that creates some real capacity constraints for us. I’m curious if you’re seeing the same or anything else.

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. For us, it really depends on the role. We haven’t had any pipeline issues recently, but we do you know, we had a kinda strategic effort to hire a sourcer versus hiring a full-cycle recruiter on that end. So that was one thing we wanted to make sure that we isn’t to be said that we That isn’t to be said that we haven’t, you know, flexed that sourcer a little bit to some full cycle recruiting as needed, especially with an influx of amazing candidates just applying to us.

There’s still a lot of candidate education to be had though with that end. And going back to kind of the profiles, some of the profiles that we’re hiring are actually have been people that have been roofers before as well. Our CEO, Richie, actually, you know, spent, I think, ten years on the roof. He worked for his dad’s roofing company and alongside one of his cousins as well, who also now works at that, works at the company too.

So we have a really blended background of professionals that are working here, both blue collar, you know, and white collar as well.

JOSH TOLAN: Yep. What do you mean when you mentioned candidate education? Can you share more about that?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. So I don’t know. I don’t know how sexy people find roofing, first off. But also when you think about, you know, joining a company, there is a lot of factors that candidates try and consider.

And so one of them is, you know, what does the company do? Kind of what is that mission? And so we try on the front end to really educate people on, you know, why did Richie start this company? It wasn’t to make money.

It was really too and the kind of tagline, I guess, was every family deserves an affordable roof.

And so if we can provide a great software at an affordable price, then that means that roofers are not having to, you know, put that cost onto the individual who’s getting a roof. And so that candidate education on, you know, why do we do what we do? Not only drives us after a lot of candidates entering the workforce now want a mission driven company.

A lot of candidates entering the workforce now want a mission driven company wanna see and make an impact, and so we wanna make sure that we are educating people on the possibilities.

JOSH TOLAN: Love it. Yeah. That’s great. Thanks for explaining. You mentioned you guys are recruiting a lot of roofers into the business. What types of roles are you recruiting those folks into?

JEN PAXTON: So they actually made phenomenal sales folks, and then also on our customer success and implementation teams as well. So we really have a blend of backgrounds on all of those, all in all of those roles at this point. And it’s great because when you think about on the sale on the sales side and also on the customer side as well, it gives us a lot of credibility.

And when we’re talking to roofers, if a roofer comes in and has question about our software, it just gives them, I guess, a little bit more trust in us that we have been we have been there. We have done that. We have, you know, we know what a pitch is. You know? We know what a slope of a roof looks like and everything.

So Totally.

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. What challenges come with recruiting folks into, you know, essentially a career transitional type of position?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. I think a lot of the challenges don’t come as much in the recruiting side of it. They actually come on more of the back end because there is a learning curve when it comes to the technical side. So we use HubSpot over here and Jira, and we use this platform called Guru as well.

And so there’s a lot of kind of technical aptitude that has to be raised that is not something that you would have had if you were on a roof. On the flip side of it, we do have people who are coming from a SaaS background who have used different CRMs and know nothing about roofing. 

And so I think it’s honestly a very great marriage because we have people with the roofing knowledge with really limited SaaS, and then we have people with SaaS experience and limited roofing. And they’re able to learn from one another and and have kind of that playing field where they’re being collaborative almost by design.

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. That’s amazing. And how do you talk about that during the hiring process with these roofers that are considering joining? I’m sure they have questions or maybe some discomfort with not having the experience.

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. So a lot of it is actually talking about how we’re going to support their growth and what training we’re going to give them. Because what we do is we have one week of kind of roofer specific training.

So that is the different departments, the different tools we use, how do we work together, how do we collaborate, and then we also have one-on-one. So we have a person on our rev ops team who is doing one-on-one training with everybody at the company when they’re starting so that they are getting up to speed on HubSpot. 

So they understand kind of the the HubSpot hygiene and the data hygiene that we need to follow, and that is only kind of helping us on the back end there. I think that we find that communicating kind of how we’re going to support their growth and how we’re gonna set them up for success, it’s got anyone over the hurdle.

The other side of it is that we have a really good just brand loyalty on the roofing side already. So roofers trust Roofr. That is a mouthful to say. But it’s really great because then, you know, if we already have that kind of reputation that we are a best in class and we are trying to build something amazing, then roofers already recognize that in our platform.

So it makes the conversation, I think, on the recruiting side a lot easier too.

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. Love it. And as a global team, you know, going back to remote hiring, are your hiring managers also all over the globe as well, or is everybody in Canada, or how does that work?

JEN PAXTON: So predominantly, our hiring managers are in, in Canada, but we do have one that is in Mexico at this point as well. We have a few folks that are in in Europe, but they are not managers as of yet. Hoping we can have more growth on that end. I think the only other thing to mention on the remote side, candidates sometimes wanna understand, you know, how do you actually support, you know, asynchronous communication when you’re with a global team?

Because, you know, if you have a team that, you know, barely gets to overlap, then how are you able to have projects done? We don’t just have people on the East Coast as well. We have people on the West Coast as well. So then if we have engineers in Portugal and in Spain and in the Ukraine, how do they, you know, actually interface with people that might be in Victoria and BC?

You know? So we wanna be able to tell that kind of and have that conversation as well. It all leads to that candidate experience.

JOSH TOLAN: And how do you demonstrate some of that during the hiring process?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. A lot of it is just talking to people about kind of what we’ve what we’ve done so far. But then it’s also just being honest about, you know, where we still feel like we have work to be done. I’d be very skeptical of any company that’s like, we have a perfect remote strategy.

It’s like, is it really perfect? Because there’s always gonna be that edge case that something there or a new learning that you’re gonna find. And I think that also would probably go against some of our values of just, like, continuous improvement and, and continuous learning. So that’d be that’d be interesting to see 

JOSH TOLAN: Yep. 

JEN PAXTON: A person post that.

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. No. That makes sense. And then, and I totally agree. So I was, in preparing for this, and I was on your LinkedIn.

And first of all, it’s great. You’re posting a lot of awesome content for the community. So, definitely appreciate that. Tons of good insights there.

But one of the posts I think it was actually from yesterday that you had put up there was you posed a question to all the recruiters out there if they feel that there is a tug of war between the hiring manager experience and the candidate experience. So I have two questions on that. One, can you elaborate on that? And two, do you feel the pains of a tug of war between those two experiences?

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. I’ll answer the second one first, actually, because, yes, I do feel that there is a tug of war, but it’s almost a necessary tension sometimes. And the way that I think about it, you know, we have hiring managers, and when we get in a kickoff call, we’re having expectation-setting conversations there.

But by the time that it maybe we’re in the middle stages or even close to the offer stage sometimes, maybe there’s some kind of, you know, wrench that gets thrown in that the hiring manager needs to prioritize now because something has changed on our road map, and we need to probe the candidate a little bit more on x scale. And so that’s when the hiring manager will, you know, advocate and be like, hey. We need to, you know, we need to see x.

We then go back, and it’s our job, this is kind of tug of war, is the education side of the candidate experience. Because in the very beginning, we’ve outlined you all the different stages of what’s gonna happen and when, who you’re gonna talk to, what’s that gonna be what that what that focus is gonna be for that interview. And so this is surprising to a candidate. And so we need to educate the manager on, you know, is this going to be the best candidate experience?

Do we really need to have this skill? Could we repurpose it into something else? And that’s kind of where that happy tension, but also, I mean, it’s frustrating for recruiters on this end because you’re kind of, I don’t know, Maybe it’s just me, but, like, I lean to, like, the candidate experience side. And then when I, you know, have kind of a wrench or something thrown in, like, I’m kind of perturbed too, honestly, being like, why, like, why do you need this?

Like, I almost sometimes feel like the hiring manager needs to educate me on, you know, what is it really about this one skill or this one thing that you’re throwing in that’s gonna add that much value because it is detrimental to the candidate experience. And we all know that if a candidate doesn’t have a really good experience with the company, they’re very unlikely to join the company.

And yeah. So that’s all I’m saying.

JOSH TOLAN: And how do you manage that then with your hiring managers? Right? If they’re saying, Hey. Yes. It’s critical We do this extra interview or have this extra meeting that we didn’t tell the candidate we were gonna have in the first place. Like, how do you uncover if, yes, that’s truly needed, or maybe there’s another way we can go about it, or maybe, no, we’re not gonna do this at all, or we’re just gonna advance to the next step?

JEN PAXTON: I mean, honestly, it’s a balance on that end because especially, depending on how far along the candidate is in the process, There’s been a handful of times when, you know, the candidate is at that offer stage. We haven’t told them that they’re getting an offer yet, but we all know internally, like, oh, like, if everything went well with this one, that’s the natural progression, and we don’t have a new like another interview set up. And so there will be a lot of conversations with the hiring manager that if they wanna throw this additional in-in interview onto this list, I need to know what is gonna define success.

So, what data am I going to gather from this, or are we going to gather from it? Has the team actually calibrated some of this stuff? So it’s like, what does good look like? What does great look like?

And what is basically, what does a hire have to do or, like, to a candidate have to do to prove that that’s higher at that end? And a lot of that work, hiring managers don’t wanna do sometimes too.

JOSH TOLAN: Yep.

JEN PAXTON: And so if you’re like, I need all this stuff to make sure that we’re having a good candidate experience and also that, you know, this thing that we’re throwing in at the last minute is successful, Can you get that to me? And if a day goes by or two good days go by, then I’m talking about feels like you’re maybe deprioritizing this. Is that right? And then there are some conversations to be had.

So, again, it is a balance. There are definitely things that you can suss out that are mission critical in that sense, but then also there’s sometimes when a hiring manager makes this, like, gut reaction, like, I gotta know this. And you’re the person on the recruiting side saying, do you really need to know that? Have you thought this through?

There’s a lot of other, you know, factors that you might wanna consider before we make this, you know, drastic change. I feel like I’m on a rant, and I apologize for that.

The only other thing I’ll say on the the tug of war part of it is there are some hiring managers, and I’m sure almost everybody in the audience can relate to this, that just don’t get back to you with feedback.

And it’s excruciatingly painful waiting for them to get back to you with feedback. And you have to explain to them what effect that is having on the candidate experience and how if they really liked this person, that is really limiting their chances that this person’s gonna continue on the process if we let them linger. So that’s the other kind of tug of war that I feel like it’s with the candidate, but it’s also kind of the recruiters in the middle of that one as well.

JOSH TOLAN: Yep. Makes a lot of sense. And I also think, look, as a recruiter, because you’re somewhat in the middle of these two parties, you also have to be empathetic to both of their situations and really put yourself in their shoes and get an understanding of what do they – what do they need. And for the hiring manager, it’s what do they need to feel confident in making a hiring decision. And for the candidates, you know, what essentially do they need in feeling confident to join the company. And you have to, you know, play the balancing act a bit there. 

When you’re interacting with your hiring managers, I know you mentioned, like, trying to get them to understand the importance of timely feedback and getting back to you on the candidates that are going through the process, amongst other things you need them to do.

What is the main thing you find that resonates with hiring managers to get them motivated to essentially do what you need them to do in order to deliver the best candidate experience?

JEN PAXTON: I always focus on the back, like, what is the result going to be? And then try and work backwards from there. If they need someone on a particular role, in, in a particular role for a particular project to do something, we may already have it on our road map, but we may not.

And so really telling them a little bit about, let’s start where we need our goal to be and work backward. And then, the delays only only actually kind of signal that we’re going to delay when we have this person start. 

Some hiring managers are also, I don’t know how to explain it, but some are like, well, I need this person to start immediately. And then we talk a little bit about, okay, well, what are their goals going to be and how are you going to onboard them to the team?

Because that immediacy of it can be really challenging too on the on, you know, on the people team. The other thing I will want to do as well, and this is when a hiring manager is like, I need them as soon as possible. We’re educating them on, you know, our time to hire at this point, and we’ve gotten it, you know, we’ve gotten it weighed down, but it’s still, you know, it’s still higher than higher than some other times in life. I think it’s at forty, like, forty-eight days at this point.

So not not bad, but still, especially on the engineering side, definitely not not bad. But still, like, that means that when we have that kickoff call, it’s forty eight days for it where that person to really get into either get into that seat or get that offer. So, again, any additional complexity or things you throw in, that’s just gonna delay it. So I try and I try and explain it with the data if possible.

JOSH TOLAN: Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. And, also, I like that you’re educating them on time to hire because not only is that important, managing expectations when you’re taking off the hiring process, but it gets them to think more holistically about their talent needs throughout the course of the year. Because if they understand that, hey, it’s it takes us forty-eight days, to fill that position and get somebody in that seat. Like, I probably shouldn’t wait till the last minute to talk to Jen or the other people on the talent acquisition team about needing a role and wait till it is urgent and dire because then, you know, the time the hire will play out and you’ll already be behind the curve. So it gets people to think more holistically about planning ahead and maybe starting the conversation a little bit earlier than they normally would.

But then it helps them back into the timeline of when they actually will need that person in that seat.

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. Exactly.

The other thing that sometimes managers forget is how they’re utilizing the interviewers on their team. So there’s actually some feedback I need to give soon. Hopefully, next I’m actually, it’ll be next week, where, you know, one person on the team has been really heavily involved in the interview process for a few different roles. And the members of the team that they have are now kind of feeling that, like, the manager is not always available because they’re in interviews all the time.

And I wanna talk with the hiring manager a little bit about their work-life balance, but also, you know, how is that having a downstream effect on the team? Because this person is getting pulled into more interviews because the interviews are getting more complex, and they’re also not calibrating, you know, what is actually somebody who passes to the next stage or who gets to an offer. So the interviewer is still spinning their wheels sometimes just interviewing person after person, and it’s not helping anybody.

JOSH TOLAN: Yep. That yeah. I see that a lot where, you know, if you don’t have if you’re not calibrating properly or you don’t have the ideal candidate profile built out and you’re not properly vetting folks before they get to the hiring manager the it’s so important for talent acquisition teams to calibrate early on with the hiring manager about what does good look like. 

So when we pull you in for a hiring manager interview, we make sure it’s a wise investment of your time, and you’re not going through a hundred of them because you haven’t, you know, set proper expectations upfront about what good looks like.

The other thing I wanna jump to, I thought this was really interesting.

When you were talking about the hiring manager and candidate experience, it made me think about like, the questions that you’re asking the hiring manager made me think about almost like a budgeting process. Like, when you’re thinking about your candidate experience, like, you have a budget or you have a quota, essentially is, like, what you can ask of a candidate. 

Right? Like, there’s a threshold that it’s like, if we go over that budget or over that threshold or quota of their attention and time that we require, we’re not gonna lose that candidate. And so the questions that you were asking the hiring manager, I feel like really get them thinking strategically about what is truly important.

Do I really need this additional step in the hiring process? Is this really important? Or is this just something that I have recency bias over or something that popped up, and now I want to randomly add it to the hiring process? And so I think setting up that framework and, you know, almost forcing your hiring managers to think more strategically about, okay, the impacts of if we do this thing and how that impacts the candidate experience and ultimately how that impacts the outcome. The voice goes, like, random acts, that you can often see in the hiring process where it’s like, oh, what let’s do this, or let’s ask the candidate for this, or, like, you’re ready to make an offer, and it’s like, I wanna talk to them one more time, and it’s like, you know, it you avoid all that by really forcing the hiring manager to think, you know, somewhat in a box of, like, questions that get them to approach the decision, you know, more strategically.

And it reminded me of another LinkedIn post you had, about, and I think it was a recent one too, about when you get the feedback of be more strategic. Right?

And it’s like, think more strategically. We need you to be more strategic, especially see this all the time when it comes to talent acquisition. It’s like getting the mandate of, like, we need talent acquisition team to be more strategic, but there’s no context. So what does that actually mean?

And when you were talking about how you interact with your hiring managers and you’re giving them a framework or a process by which to approach a particular situation, that’s a great example of that. But from your experience, you know, how do you often see this play out in talent acquisition, and how can people, when they’re given that feedback maybe without the context, take a more strategic approach in talent acquisition? Sorry. That no.

That was kind of a ramble as well, but we love your thoughts. I love it.

JEN PAXTON: No. I loved it. Thanks.

So I think one of the things that I really have kind of deep thoughts about, and this is where, like, whenever somebody says, like, be more strategic, I’m like, on what exactly? Like, how do you define X? Like, tell me more.

But I think about it from, like, a contingency play almost. So when I am having kind of those walk through with hiring managers on, like, all of the different steps, I’m not – I’m not a negative person, but I’m like, where can it go wrong? Like, where is it going to potentially mess up or maybe, like, divert or where could the – where could the candidate get lost potentially in this?

And so I wanna make sure that when we’re even thinking about our process overall, that we’re keeping it as, honestly, as tight as possible because we wanna make sure that we have that candidate’s attention.

And we’re also making sure that we are getting back to them quickly because, internally, we move very quickly. And so we want our recruiting process to actually mirror that way that we behave in, internally too.

Bigger companies and other companies that maybe have longer thought processes or have more red tape, maybe you wanna go ahead and have that foreshadowed in your interview process as well. But I think that’s honestly where a lot of startups who wanna move fast and break things really fail with, like, three to seven interviews.

Or I had one company that wanted to do an all like, bring the candidate in for a whole day, and then, like, there’s other like, there’s, like, five interviews before that one day. And I had to educate the hiring managers on, you know, when the candidate is probably gonna drop off at this point because we’re also letting the candidate know up ahead of, like, hey, here’s all the stats. 

And then, and then having them to understand, like, a lot of candidates are working. And obviously, this is a very different market when I was communicating this previously, but it’s still one of those things where the candidate is still very valuable, and we wanna make sure that we’re not taking advantage of them.

So going back to your conversation on the strategic side of it, I like to pull in the data to let hiring managers know kind of what might happen and when, and also kind of what historically has happened to us. But then I also want them to not think about just this one experience we’re having, but what is going to happen into kind of the rest of the team and to the rest of the company. 

And then also thinking about, again, going back to our brand, like, that’s when you really – that’s when you’re playing chess and not checkers at that point. When you realize this one person who had a bad experience with a company would affect members of the current team because they might see the Glassdoor review.

But then not only that, but then after that, that affects our top of the funnel Because no one’s going to, you know, wanna apply to a company that has bad reviews. And then that’s also potentially gonna affect our corporate brand. So roofers might not wanna use us if our reputation is garbage.

JOSH TOLAN: Yep.

JEN PAXTON: So it’s it’s it’s very it’s a very holistic approach too, I guess, but that was very long winded.

JOSH TOLAN: No. That was great. I really appreciate it. And, Jen, this has been awesome.

You shared so many great insights, and it’s great to reconnect. We didn’t talk about it at the beginning of the show, but we did a podcast, I don’t know, six, seven years ago or something at this point. The world was way different pre-pandemic.

Lots has changed, lots of chain lots of changes in the world, but, you know, it’s been great to reconnect, and it’s great to see that you’re still doing awesome things and, you know, continuing to help companies advance, both on the people side and on our talent acquisition side. So, I appreciate your time.

JEN PAXTON: Yeah. Thank you so much again for having me. I’m always happy to chat.

JOSH TOLAN: Thanks.